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Refeeds: Not So Obvious Fat lLoss Mistake, Not doing Structured Refeeds

Discussion in 'Diet, Nutrition and Supplements' started by Inatic, Jan 20, 2013.

Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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Bringing this over from Fb. There is some good information in the comments section too.. search Notes section, on February 26, 2011

Not-So-Obvious Fat-Loss Mistake: Not Doing Structured Refeeds (PART 1)
by Lean Bodies Consulting on Saturday, February 26, 2011 at 4:05pm ·
It sure would be nice if fat loss progress was a linear phenomenon, but it's not. It sure would be nice if there were no such thing as fat-loss plateaus, but it's not. Anyone who's dieted before knows that fat- loss plateaus are an inevitable part of dieting. What I mean by that is your initial program set up simply stops producing the desired results. So what do you have to do? Based on an outcome-based approach, you need to make some modifications to your plan.

There are a number of physiological changes that occur when one eats in a caloric deficit. Your bodyweight, or more accurately, bodyfat is generally regulated which means that your body adjusts in response to deviations from your 'normal' bodyfat level in an effort to maintain a certain bodyfat. Scientists refer to this as one's 'set point'.

Metabolism generally chases caloric intake, which means that when you raise calories, it goes up, albeit not very much. On the contrary, when you lower calories, your metabolism will slow down to a degree as well. Appetite responds in a similar fashion. There's really just no getting around this - rest assured, it comes back easily.

In addition, sympathetic nervous system activity falls, thyroid hormone levels fall, and a number of regulatory hormones that govern metabolism and subsequent fat loss (leptin, ghrelin, peptide YY, etc) all adjust in response to your lowered caloric intake. Changes in these hormones are monitored by the hypothalamus in your brain. In essence, they tell your brain what's happening downstream – whether you're losing bodyfat for example. As a result, your brain sends out a message in response to these changes in order to adjust metabolism, appetite and activity levels. The result is slowed and in some cases, stalled fat loss.

This effect tends to be greater the longer you've been dieting, the more you've deviated from your normal set point, and the lower your bodyfat levels, and as such, this is when refeeds and planned periods of maintenance calories become very important.

A refeed is a basically a designated period of high carbohydrate (and lower fat) high calorie (at least maintenance levels) eating. Beyond the psychological benefits of being able to enjoy some fun carbohydrates, there are some potential physiological benefits that function to aid in furthering your fat-loss efforts. Periods of high carbohydrate eating have the potential to reverse the negative hormonal changes discussed previously.

Basically, they almost 'trick' your body into believing everything is normal. In addition, given their high-carb nature, another benefit is a refilling of muscle glycogen which will help maintain intense weight-training performance. The issue is whether the effect these refeeds have on normalizing the previously mentioned hormones is significant or not. Whether or not they are, from a scientific standpoint is debatable, but anecdotally, they definitely help with fat loss. The shortest time period that has been shown to have a positive effect on leptin levels is five hours, although this was shown in a rat study. The response however would not be one that would be considered significant. It is debatable as to whether even full day refeeds significantly impact levels of these hormones, but again, something is definitely happening since there is no doubt it helps with fat loss.

The question becomes when do you start implementing them and how do you put one together. The main issue in determining the utility of a refeed is where your bodyfat is. That is, the higher it is, the longer you can go without having to worry about any 'metabolic consequences' and as such, the need to start using refeeds. The leaner you are, the more important using refeeds becomes if your goal is to get even leaner. The timing of when to start refeeding will vary from person to person.

Generally when you're already starting to look relatively lean, you've got some muscle definition, and you are seemingly doing everything else by the book, yet not losing fat, it is probably a good time to start implementing regular refeeds.
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Inatic, Jan 20, 2013

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Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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Structured Refeeds part 2

continuedosted Monday, February 28, 2011 at 9:23am

Continued from Part 1 ...

However, shorter refeeds (5-6 hours focused around workouts) can be used even earlier. These would be less for any physiological benefit and more for psychological benefit. It would almost be a little like carb cycling in the sense that once a week or so you are getting a very high carb day that allows you the opportunity for some fun carbohydrates.

You should be consuming mainly low-fat, low-fiber carbohydrates and lean proteins during your refeeds and fat should be kept relatively low – on the order of around 50g per day for a full-day refeed. While some sugar (sucrose, fructose) is fine, you don't want all of your refeed carbs to be sucrose/fructose based. So basically some low-fat junk (refined carbohydrates) is good; all junk is probably not. How much? Obviously for the shorter refeeds (5-6 hours) you're going to be eating less as your refeed is going to occur over 2-3 meals. Longer refeeds therefore warrant more carbs. Generally you can work up to consuming as many carbs as you can without regaining bodyfat. I would suggest starting with the shorter refeeds and moving to the longer refeeds as you progress. Setting carb intake in the range of 2-5g/kg of bodyweight is a good starting position.

A quick note on women and refeeds – a number of women seem to respond better to the shorter refeeds, but with the caveat that they occur at a greater frequency. So instead of one full weekly refeed for example, perhaps a 5-6 hour refeed two times per week or in some cases three times per week. The greater the frequency, the lower the carbohydrate allotment. At this point it might start to look like a carbohydrate-cycling plan of sorts.

Unfortunately, there comes a point when even using regular refeeds isn't enough to promote continued fat loss in everyone. You've just been dieting too long and your body is fighting back. This is when a period of maintenance calorie eating is a great strategy. Planned periods of maintenance eating is one of the most underused and effective dieting strategies out there. A two-week period of maintenance eating will go a long way to normalizing your body and 'resetting' it for further fat loss. Not only is there a strong physiological benefit (normalizing of the regulatory hormones), but there is the psychological benefit of allowing yourself to eat more, and enjoying more dietary freedom, etc. Everyone eventually needs a break from dieting and unless you've got a contest deadline, take the break. Even if you do have a contest, start early enough to allow for one two-week block at maintenance calories.

Setting it up is simple. Set your calories at 14-15x TBW, ensure you're getting 100-150g carbohydrate per day to upregulate thyroid hormone activity, set your protein at 1-1.5g/lb and make up the rest of your calories from quality fat sources. Generally you want to treat this as a diet with more food and a few more scheduled off-plan meals than you'd normally take. Technically maintenance calories are meant to maintain. You don't want to gain bodyfat and if calories are set correctly, you won't. However, chances are your weight will climb a little due to changes in fluid balance, increased glycogen storage, etc. Don't fret, it's easy come, easy go.

Continue along this path for two weeks and then resume your deficit and watch the fat start to fall off again.
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Inatic, Jan 20, 2013

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JenBower New Member

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thanks for (re)posting this Inatic!
I've been considering trying some refeeds, just didn't know how/when to start. If I read it correctly, is maintenance 14-15x bw? For the short refeeds 5/6hrs would you do the 2-5xbw for carbs or is that for a full refeed or do I stick with the 100-150g range? Again, with the short refeeds, is that 5-6hr with a preworkout and postworkout meal? Also when you have a refeed day, do you do anything different the day before, say skip your pwo carbs? I have so much to learn & I know it's by trial & error.
Thank you again!

JenBower, Jan 20, 2013

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AmyLevinger New Member

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Genius Bravo. Thanks to whoever wrote this. We all have to go where we have to go to learn what we need to get where we are but I am sure glad I made it here.

AmyLevinger, Feb 3, 2013

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Fay Well-Known Member

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Great post! Full of interesting information.

Fay, Feb 5, 2013

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JB1976 New Member

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So For someone new, who has been programmed under 1200 calories for 3 months, would you suggest maintenance calories for 2 weeks, or would you up the carbs and do the refeed fisrt?

Thanks In Advance

Jody:sadcry:

JB1976, Feb 5, 2013

#6
Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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you want to go up slowly. Id do maintenance first..(depending on how low you were eating for your body/wt etc... or even lower than maint, then increase.

Inatic, Feb 5, 2013

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JB1976 New Member

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Thanks Ileen,

I have been slowly adding I am worried about the scale change, but need to remind myself that my body needs this fuel

Jody

JB1976, Feb 5, 2013

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chrissy New Member

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Thanks for the info.....I am reading as much as I can from this forum to start implementing my eating plan whilst I wait for "that email". So Ileen, you think I should do 12 x BW, and see how I go before introducing refeeds?

chrissy, Mar 13, 2013

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liz jennings New Member

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After weeks of not dropping weight, I turned to this forum for a suggestion and came across this thread. I've implemented a refeed in the past two weeks. Wow. It worked!!!! I didn't check the scale coz that thing was driving me nuts, but my weightlifting belt now hooks on the 4th notch. Prior to my refeeds, it hooked on the 3rd notch. And I can def see changes in the mirror. I'm much leaner now!!! Yay!!!

liz jennings, Mar 13, 2013

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chrissy New Member

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liz jennings said: ↑

After weeks of not dropping weight, I turned to this forum for a suggestion and came across this thread. I've implemented a refeed in the past two weeks. Wow. It worked!!!! I didn't check the scale coz that thing was driving me nuts, but my weightlifting belt now hooks on the 4th notch. Prior to my refeeds, it hooked on the 3rd notch. And I can def see changes in the mirror. I'm much leaner now!!! Yay!!!
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Great work Liz!!! I might introduce it when I hit a plateau. I plan on starting my own "plan" within the next couple of days ie. 12 x BW, and see how I go after 2 weeks, then go from there....

chrissy, Mar 13, 2013

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Kiwi New Member

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Great post, thanks

Kiwi, Mar 19, 2013

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jamistar77 Well-Known Member

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Refeeds are just awesome! They helped me get leaner than I ever thought possible! Refeeds along with strict adherence to plan that is

jamistar77, Mar 27, 2013

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Todan New Member

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What is the longest you should stay at % macros? I am not looking to lose more weight I just want to tighten up a bit more. I do controlled refeeds but not sure how long I should stay at these macros b4 doing a maintenance?

Todan, Jun 4, 2013

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Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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Only you know that.. To tighten up a bit would still be lose fat, no? That can still affect the number on the scale.

If you are satisfied or need a break, then go to maintenance.

Inatic, Jun 5, 2013

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missashleighjo Member

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I carb cycle now from a previous trainer while I'm on CWT's wait list. I think on my "high" days my intake is around 1850 cals. I think I'm gonna try upping my cals to 2000 not 14-15xbw because that jump may be too big. I'm wanting to stay away from the scale because I've realized it just messes with my mind. Using the formula Erik gave that would put me at 150 carbs 71 fat and 190 protein. The protein and fat seem high. I normally eat 187 protein. On low carb day I eat 60 fat. Should I up the protein and lower the fat in that equation to still equal out to 2000 cals? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

missashleighjo, Jun 5, 2013

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Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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missashleighjo said: ↑

I carb cycle now from a previous trainer while I'm on CWT's wait list. I think on my "high" days my intake is around 1850 cals. I think I'm gonna try upping my cals to 2000 not 14-15xbw because that jump may be too big. I'm wanting to stay away from the scale because I've realized it just messes with my mind. Using the formula Erik gave that would put me at 150 carbs 71 fat and 190 protein. The protein and fat seem high. I normally eat 187 protein. On low carb day I eat 60 fat. Should I up the protein and lower the fat in that equation to still equal out to 2000 cals? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Depending on how long your wait is for CWT, you might ask if going to maintenance for a few weeks might be a good idea.. taking a break for a bit.

Inatic, Jun 6, 2013

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missashleighjo Member

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Ileen I did email her and we've sent a few back and forth and I'm waiting on her response. I thought it was awesome for her to offer me advice even though I'm only on her wait list. A lot of coaches won't do that. I've messed with my numbers a little and took my protein to 1.2xbw. So now I have 201 pro 150 carb and 66 fat. I think that's a little better. Wish me luck. I'll keep you updated. Thanks for your response. You seem pretty helpful/knowledgeable on these forums!

missashleighjo, Jun 6, 2013

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Chicky9914 Member

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Agreed on the structure...map out a plan with the macros, get a few of your favorite carb sources and stick to the plan. Amazing how good being in control feels while still getting a nice full belly. Depending on how long it is (5-12 hours), I love having home made sweet potato fries with or some gluten-free pasta.

Chicky9914, Nov 6, 2013

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Pixietoes New Member

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Great thread. Finished a competition in early November, and I know I need to work on my leanness, but I know its time to take a break so maintenance it is.

Pixietoes, Dec 4, 2013

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