Constructing a full body routine

Discussion in 'Beginner Training & Nutrition' started by Leah, May 1, 2006.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Member

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    I know I saw a thread where Thunder modified the program for fat loss, he eliminated some of the high reps on certain days, (I think:scratch: ) but I can't seem to find it ... it could have been back on O2, anyone?

    Tricia
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Whatever

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    So Matt, do you believe that the parameters of this 3 day FB split are not "ideal" for someone trying to lose weight (i.e. in a caloric deficit)? Too much high rep work?
     
  3. quickie

    quickie Active Member

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    How is 5 X 5 high rep? The major problem on a diet would be the volume and the effort it would take to push poundages while in a deficit. Of course you could just go real slow. The submax run ups might not be ideal on a diet either.
     
  4. Sportsgirl

    Sportsgirl Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Isn't he talking about the FB routine on page 1/2 which isn't 5x5?
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Whatever

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    Hmmmm, not quite sure I understand ya. I am talking about the workout located at the beginning of this thread. I never said 5x5 was considered high rep. :wink:
     
  6. quickie

    quickie Active Member

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    :doh:

    Nevermind me.:oops: :wave:
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Whatever

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    :thumb:

    I assume you were thinking this was the 5x5 stickie.
     
  8. quickie

    quickie Active Member

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    Yes, I was.:wavesad:
     
  9. PowerManDL

    PowerManDL Banned

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    I don't think it's ideal for anyone necessarily. I'm of the group that feels that the majority of weight training, period, should be heavy 4-6 rep work. I'm not going to be a fan of anything that focuses entire blocks (be it days, weeks, whatever) on high-rep stuff to the exclusion of that essential heavy work.

    I just feel that the situation is even more pronounced while dieting.

    Muscle size is a function of competing anabolic and catabolic signals. In the loading sweet-spot (~60-85% 1RM), you tend to notice that there's a continuum of sorts related to accumulated volume:

    Detraining ---> Maintenance ---> Fitness Gain

    ATROPHY > hypertrophy ---> Atrophy = Hypertrophy ---> atrophy < HYPERTROPHY

    Since you need a given energy level to spur on the fitness gains, it's typically a good idea for you to be very conservative with where you put your volume. Since high-load stuff gives you the most bang for the buck, that's where I like to see it go. If the sarcoplasmic/metabolic-support crap needs maintaining, throw in a back-off set after that heavy work (or a back-off exercise, depending).

    There's also a matter of competing motor targets. Doing a heavy set of 5 will tend to hit more of the tension-producing contractile elements than say a heavy set of 15, which will tend to be more metabolically-taxing. Again, if the purpose is glycogen depletion or local lactate tolerance, I have no problems with it; but for strength training, I don't agree with it. Minimizing the fatigue-impact on the muscle is a lot more important when on limited energy. You need just enough stressor on the muscle to minimize the atrophy signaling, not so much to necessarily signal hypertrophy (although partitioning effects are likely related to this, too much adaptive signaling without cals to support it isn't a good idea).

    In fact, in cases of extreme dieting, I'll even recommend that you stick to the 1-3 rep range just because of the stress impact that 5s can cause.
     
  10. fitmommy

    fitmommy undie avi?...I think not.

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    Anyone?? I have a friend who is just starting to work out ( the new yr and all) she wants to lose some weight for her wedding this spring:blah:

    Anyway, she is dieting, I told her I would print out this FBW for her. But now I'm reading about proper loads and all...:confused: ... Is the original w/o still holding true for one in fat loss mode?

    I would like to see the modification, is modification needed?

    I really don't want to scare her by telling her 3x3 etc. stuff, she "doesn't want to get bulky" :shrug: :lol3: I think something more gentle is needed here.
     
  11. PowerManDL

    PowerManDL Banned

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    3x3 won't get anyone bulking. The volume's too low to see any appreciable mass gains. In all but a newbie, that is.

    Newbie gains, however, will unfortunately be unavoidable with any strength training protocol; that's something she'll just have to accept. The consolation will be that any weight gain will be a positive thing, as it's muscle tissue. But the situation being what it is, there's good odds she'll flip out and quit because it made the scale go up.

    I don't get the dichotomy; people want the benefits of strength training, yet freak out when it does what it's supposed to do: develop the muscle. What does she expect is going to happen when she incorporates a protocol that by definition causes development of muscle?

    My thoughts on the matter remain the same: for the first few weeks, spend time learning the basic exercises, little if any weight and focus on developing form. After this break-in period, shift to the tried and true: a handful of sets of 5 on a the basic barbell exercises, 3x/week, with the aim of adding weight each session.

    I can't think of any reason why, assuming diet is where it needs to be, that she wouldn't see very favorable results from that.
     
  12. fitmommy

    fitmommy undie avi?...I think not.

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    Thankyou very much! this is great basic info to have.
     
  13. wtlgn

    wtlgn Guest

    Did anyone send you the excel spreadsheet to download from this thread? I don't see it.
     
  14. Andy

    Andy Member

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    Good information...maybe you can share a few of your thoughts with me in my situation.

    I'm a 33 year old male, 5'7 1/2". I'm actually in a metabolic workout (starting weight: 178, BF of 15%) which involves supersetting 3 x/week with HIIT on a treadmill post workout. Normally on a workout day, I hover around 3-4 pair of supersets (A,B,C..sometimes D). My goals are really to lose a few more body fat and get that ripped effect if you will. I'm on a 12 week program and just 3 weeks in...I weighed myself after 19 days (yes, Erik I re-weighed) - on an empty stomach and got a reading of 174.6 lbs. That's 3.4 lbs already in less than 3 weeks. I'm pretty sure it's body fat because I'm gaining some pretty decent muscles at this point.

    Like her..I always had that mind set of seeing the numbers on the scale go down but I got it all mixed up til recently. I've become more conscious with the BF%'s going down and so a .5% body fat decrease with a 3.4 lbs weight loss seem right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  15. Bubblicious

    Bubblicious Human Incubator!

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    I should know, but I'm drawing a complete blank - what is SHELC? I'm trying to modify this setup to fit what I can do. Also, does anyone have any ideas on what I could replace the Incline Rows with? I can't be on my belly..

    ETA I found it :) Still cant figure out what to replace incline rows wih..
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
  16. smuggie

    smuggie Maureen aka Mo

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    How about regular bentover DB rows?
     
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  17. Bubblicious

    Bubblicious Human Incubator!

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    Yah, that's what I ended up doing. Everyone will have to excuse me for a while as my brain is out :lol:
     
  18. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    Would you say this set up is better for a beginner wanting to gain all over muscle, or would a 5x5 work better? Honestly, I'm leaning towards a 5x5. However, I'm wondering if these loading parameters would be enough to gain muscle? Eating in a surplus, but would better muscle gain be attained by 5x5, this one, or some other program?

    Another question to throw in the mix: if someone is training long distance i.e. they don't have a trainer with them every workout, just getting the program over the internet or whatnot, I can see how the 5x5 might not be optimal for muscle gain because form is so important. Would this be a good workout for muscle gain in that instance or is there really anything better in that case?
     
  19. Original Kloe®

    Original Kloe® *sizzle*

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    Newbie + lifting + caloric surplus = muscle gains.

    It doesn't take a 5x5.
     
  20. jaleena

    jaleena Banned

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    A 5x5 is a great building volume for a more experienced lifter. Since newer lifters don't/can't recruit as much of their muscle fibers, a routine that allows for both practice in a low-ish rep range and work in a higher one is probably optimal. And definitely still works for experienced lifters when they know how to adapt the parameters, but I don't think a new lifter can really do well with a 5x5. I started lifting with pretty good body awareness from fight training, and I wouldn't have been truly ready because I didn't know the movement patterns.
     

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